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Chemistry lesson please

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Chemistry lesson please

Post  bridgegirl99 on Wed 09 Dec 2015, 17:47

I'm sure I've asked this before, and I'm still not getting it right, so I'm doing something wrong, and I've not worked out what. And I can't find what thread it was on before.

My main tanks are all fine, but I'm having Ph problems in my breeding tanks.

They all have sponge filters, one has two and an air stone, one has also a small internal (maybe this is my problem?)

I have been using 2/3 tap water and 1/3 ro for my water changes. I have checked my ro water and it seems to be fine, maybe I could use a new membrane, but the TDS was 24 so I think thats OK?

I do have a very small bit of Java fern in the tanks, and they're all bare bottomed.

The Ph has risen to at least 7.8 possibly a bit higher, which is why I think my last spawn this week went white straight away.

What causes the Ph to rise like this? Embarassed Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

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Re: Chemistry lesson please

Post  Pterophyllum on Wed 09 Dec 2015, 21:33

There are two issues, the carbonate hardness (KH) and the amount of CO2 dissolved in the water.

For any given KH the more CO2 dissolved in the water the lower the pH will be, conversely the lower the level of CO2 the higher the pH will be.
similarly

For any given level of CO2 the lower the KH the lower the pH will be, conversely the higher the KH the higher the pH will be.

Using airstones and air driven filters will tend to drive the CO2 out of solution causing the pH to rise.

Reducing the KH by 90% will bring your pH down to 6.8, you could achieve this by using roughly 90% R.O. for your water changes. Unfortunately, unless you have incredibly hard tap water, using 90% R.O. will reduce your KH to a point where the pH is likely to become very unstable, basically I certainly wouldn't lower the kH below 1.0 DH (German Hardness 1DH = 17.8ppm, most test kits are calibrated in German hardness, but some use ppm, make sure you know which you're measuring in!)
A combination of lowering the KH and reducing the amount of aireation combined with the addition of bogwood or some other source of mildly acid tannins would probably bring the pH down close to 7.0.

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Re: Chemistry lesson please

Post  bridgegirl99 on Wed 09 Dec 2015, 21:36

OK thanks Rob I'll address the bubbles tomorrow!

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Re: Chemistry lesson please

Post  bridgegirl99 on Sat 19 Dec 2015, 15:48

well Water changes were done, one filter and one airstone removed, I added a Kapata leaf for good measure.

The last spawn I had in this tank was white almost instantly, this time I have a huge spawn and about half a dozen white eggs on day two!

Now all I need is mum and dad not to eat them!!! Laughing fingers crossed! They usually get to the wriggler stage, move them.............. and they're gone Shocked

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Re: Chemistry lesson please

Post  Pterophyllum on Sat 19 Dec 2015, 22:12

good luck

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Re: Chemistry lesson please

Post  bridgegirl99 on Mon 21 Dec 2015, 13:48

Hmmmm not so good, 2/3 of the wrigglers had gone, I have a feeling it was Dad "who done it", Mum kept shooing him away, so I've removed him, just to see what happens, Mum doesn't seem too upset with me so far, so fingers crossed I can save a few......... and know what to do next time!! lol

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Re: Chemistry lesson please

Post  Deans_Angels on Mon 21 Dec 2015, 18:18

bridgegirl99 wrote:so I've removed him, just to see what happens...

Worth a try. I think I have a similar problem, mum stays quite close to the eggs, but I don't think she is smart enough. Unless they just both take a decision at some point to eat as many eggs as they can, as quickly as they can. Unless I see it with my own eyes, I'm minded to blame the male, seems like the default starting point Laughing

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Re: Chemistry lesson please

Post  Pterophyllum on Wed 23 Dec 2015, 16:28

Once one starts eating the eggs, the other will often join in, with inexperienced fish I've noticed that sometimes one partner will be trying to clear the fungused eggs, and the other gets very agitated, like they think the healthy ones are being gobbled.
I know some people like to keep the light on for the parents, but personally I have my tank lights on a timer and have them go off at the same time every night. some parents seem very confident when I'm around, others seem very nervous, and nervous fish tend to eat their eggs. Regularly checking to see if they have, can make them more nervous.
In the past with some pairs where the eggs consistently disappeared overnight, leaving a light on has helped, but on other occasions it seems to make the parents more nervous & stressed.
Sometimes they eat the eggs because the eggs weren't fertile. Even proven pairs who've successfully parent raised can produce batches which don't seem to be fertile. This often happens just after they've been moved to a new tank and I wonder if a change in water chemistry can affect fertility, as given a couple more tries, in the same tank, with the same water chemistry, things seem to come good.
Removing the culprit, as you've done can often work, unfortunately the stress of a net in the tank and the disappearance of their partner can sometimes cause the remaining parent to turn cannibal.
In short, most things can work, some of the time. But patience and anything you can do to help the pair feel relaxed and secure help most Very Happy

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Re: Chemistry lesson please

Post  bridgegirl99 on Wed 23 Dec 2015, 17:08

Sadly Mum has cleaned them up now, and she was doing so well................ oh well Mad

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Re: Chemistry lesson please

Post  Deans_Angels on Wed 23 Dec 2015, 17:13

Keep trying bridgegirl99!

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