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Angelfish Project - Genetics Made Simple!

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Angelfish Project - Genetics Made Simple!

Post  Deans_Angels on Thu 04 Jun 2015, 05:22

I'm working on a technology related project which enables users to query various angelfish genotypes and obtain specific information in response to each request. The purpose is to educate the user about specific angelfish genotypes with minimal investment of time and effort required on their part to research what it all means.

This project does not predict offspring outcomes of pairings (other websites do that), but it is likely to include information about breeding angelfish of particular genotypes. It is not intended for experts but would be an educational resource for those who just want to know more about angels and would rather read a specific section of text which is relevant to them, rather than have to learn the entire functioning of angelfish genetics. In addition, it would include information which I regard as hidden as it's not always that obvious unless it's pointed out, I'm trying to think of examples:

- [All koi carry a double dose of stripeless] = It's not possible to have a Zebra or Clown Koi.
- [V/V x +/+ = 100% V/+] = Even if one of the parents is Super Veil, it's not possible to create Super Veil offspring using a Standard Fin parent.

I've discovered that there are thousands of genetic variations possible, many many thousands in fact!
I have a prototype, it's very basic at the moment, but I'm building its intelligence:

3250 . Genotype: +/+ - h/h - +/+ - p/+ - a/a - +/bg Phenotype:
About this Angelfish:The fin length is typical of a wild angelfish, so whilst it may have tall fins with some extentions or even wide fins, the Standard Fin angelfish does not display the Veil or Super Veil characteristics which both serve to elongate the fins to a lesser or greater extent.
Breeding this Angelfish:Breeding two Standard Fin angelfish will result in 100% Standard Fin offspring, however, if one of the parents is Veil it will result in 50% Veil offspring, that is, you will have a Veil and Standard Fin versions of each type. If one of the parents is Super Veil it will result in 100% Veil offspring with no Standard Fins. It follows that you can not obtain any Super Veil offspring using this Standard Fin parent.

3251 . Genotype: +/+ - h/h - +/+ - p/+ - a/a - bg/+ Phenotype:
About this Angelfish:The fin length is typical of a wild angelfish, so whilst it may have tall fins with some extentions or even wide fins, the Standard Fin angelfish does not display the Veil or Super Veil characteristics which both serve to elongate the fins to a lesser or greater extent.
Breeding this Angelfish:Breeding two Standard Fin angelfish will result in 100% Standard Fin offspring, however, if one of the parents is Veil it will result in 50% Veil offspring, that is, you will have a Veil and Standard Fin versions of each type. If one of the parents is Super Veil it will result in 100% Veil offspring with no Standard Fins. It follows that you can not obtain any Super Veil offspring using this Standard Fin parent.

3252. etc..

Anyone interested? Needing some cheers and clapping to spur me on!


Last edited by Deans_Angels on Thu 04 Jun 2015, 05:32; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Because I can.)

Deans_Angels

Posts : 264
Join date : 2015-01-06
Age : 43
Location : Huddersfield

http://www.angelfish.org,uk

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Re: Angelfish Project - Genetics Made Simple!

Post  Pterophyllum on Thu 04 Jun 2015, 11:04

Hi Dean,
I think it's a very laudable, ambitious and potentially very useful project. Providing you're intending to make it available as a "free to use", educational resource, should you wish to include photos of the different varieties, you're welcome to use any of my photos.
My only concern is the scale of what you're attempting, there are 15 possible gene combinations at the dark locus, 6 at stripeless locus (S/S, S/Z, S/+, Z/Z, Z/+ & +/+) and 3 at all other known loci. So just considering those 2 plus pearlscale & veiltail gives 810 possible combinations.

Add to that the other known loci, ie Smokey, half black, streaked, albino, Philippine blue & you're up to nearly 200,000 possible genotypes. If you accept Bulgarian green, that takes it to over 1/2 a million, and if you want to be really thorough and include the probably extinct Hong Kong & Naja gold loci, that takes you to 5.3 million different gene combinations. Allowing just 10 minutes per gene combination that's 101 man years of work, if you're typing each one out by hand.

I presume that's not the case, and you're designing the the program to insert the relevant information about each gene combination automatically. For some like veiltail, the information will be the same whatever the other genes present, but for others, the key will be getting the program to correctly identify the influence of a gene in the particular combination it's present.

For example :-
+/+ compared with +/g the gold gene makes no difference
D/+ compared with D/g the gold gene produces a darker fish
+/+ - pb/pb compared with +/g - pb/pb the gold gene produces a lighter fish!

Anyway, keep up the good work & I look forward to seeing the fruits of your labours.


Last edited by Pterophyllum on Thu 04 Jun 2015, 12:17; edited 1 time in total

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Pterophyllum

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Re: Angelfish Project - Genetics Made Simple!

Post  Deans_Angels on Thu 04 Jun 2015, 12:10

Yes, it would be a free public resource there should be some scope for example pictures, thank you for the kind offer.

Making no assumption about the correctness of the genotype request, the combinations run into the millions, I had calculated around 15 million (not including extinct loci and assuming that green was a new independent loci). There are various rules for the geno to pheno explanation, but snippets (as per the examples in your post) are the bits of missing information which should be included, and can be included without having to write it out a million times.

So I still think it's 'do able', needs a little more work but I will be sure to post when I have a rough public prototype hosted.

Update 8th June 2015: Prototype hosted, just tinkering. I will reveal the location of the app shortly. Slight delay due to unexpected 2x3's coming my way for my tank racks.

Update 9th June 2015: The 'framework' is in place - a little bit more work and it should be doing something! If you take a look, you can get a feel for it.

Update 11th June 2015: All seems well, genotype to phenotype working well, my focus is now on creating the snippets of information into the correct place. I'm pleased with progress so far. Laughing

Update 15th June 2015: Working on snippets, but have also decided to have two searches, by genotype and phenotype. Some people will need the phenotype version to get going, adding more phenotypes at the moment.

Update 17th June 2015:
pb/pb - bg/bg = Green blue (goldless) platinum?
D/+ - bg/bg = Green Lace  (following existing rules)?
D/D - bg/bg = Green double black?
D/+ - pb/pb - bg/bg = Green black lace pinoy?
D/D - pb/pb - bg/bg = Green double black pinoy?


Update 23rd June 2015: Added error correction, just in case users alter the genotype on the phenotype page, it will set the allele to wild '+' if it's not recognised: i/+,d/i,d/+,i/t,+/w,r/o,n/g,+/+,+/+,bg/bg becomes: bg/bg
Because i,d,t,w,r,o and n aren't alleles. g is an allele, but in this case, the 'g' must appear in the correct position, (the first pair in the list which deals with the dark loci).


Update 28th June 2015: Added typical eye colouration cyclops

Angelfish Types can be found here: http://www.angelfish.org.uk


Last edited by Deans_Angels on Sun 28 Jun 2015, 02:42; edited 8 times in total (Reason for editing : Update)

Deans_Angels

Posts : 264
Join date : 2015-01-06
Age : 43
Location : Huddersfield

http://www.angelfish.org,uk

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