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Looking for the Paraiba

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Looking for the Paraiba

Post  Atreyu on Mon 27 Apr 2015, 22:34

Bueno compañeros, inicio este hilo para ir comentando la reproducción y engorde de los alevines de mi última búsqueda de genotipo "Paraiba".

Hace unos meses inicié la unión de un Negro Fantasma (macho) con un Plata Azul (hembra). El resultado unos 40 alevines portando una representación de diferentes genotipos.

El macho:


El momento de la puesta:


Si bien la puesta fue numerosa, no resultó igualmente en el numero de nacimientos, condiciones de las aguas de mi zona impiden tener unas reproducciones exitosas, unido además a los problemas que se puedan derivar de los parentales elegidos.

Puesta de 540 huevos:


Hoy hace exactamente un mes del nacimiento de los alevines.

-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.

Google translator
Well colleagues, I start this thread to be commenting on the breeding and fattening fry my last search genotype "Paraiba".

A few months ago I started the union of a Black Ghost (male) with a Silver Blue (female). The result about 40 fry bearing a representation of different genotypes.

The male:

The time of release:

Although the setting was large, not just resulted in the number of births, water conditions in my area have a successful reproductions prevent further attached to the problems that may arise from parental elected.

540 eggs:

Today exactly one month of the birth of the fry ago.


Last edited by Atreyu on Mon 27 Apr 2015, 22:41; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Looking for the Paraiba

Post  Atreyu on Mon 27 Apr 2015, 22:38

Del resultado de esta unión deberían aparecer los siguientes genotipos:



Una vez llevados a adultos mi idea es unir en una siguiente reproducción a los ejemplares obtenidos para obtener las líneas genéticas que busco.

Un saludo

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Google translator
The result of this union the following genotypes should appear:

Once adults carried my idea is to unite in a subsequent reproduction to the copies obtained for genetic lines I want.

A greeting
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Re: Looking for the Paraiba

Post  Deans_Angels on Tue 28 Apr 2015, 16:28

Si entonces (S/S - pb/pb x S/S - pb/pb) for 100% paraiba Very Happy

qué otros cruces va a tratar avec F2's?
What other crosses will you try with F2's?

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Re: Looking for the Paraiba

Post  Atreyu on Thu 30 Apr 2015, 21:37

Hello Deans:

Otra opción que se me plantearía sería cruzar dos de los hermanos, en este caso un Plata Fantasma y un Negro Fantasma ambos portadores del Azul.


3125% = 3,125%

De esta forma se obtendrían en una sola vez los Pinoi y los Paraiba, aunque eso si reduciendo a la mitad el porcentaje obtenido, tal vez en caso de falta de espacio haya que pensar en hacerlo.

A greeting

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Google translator
Another option that would arise I would cross two of the brothers, in this case a Silver Ghost and Black Gosht Blue both carriers.

In this way would result in one-time and Paraiba and Pinoi, but that if halving the percentage obtained, perhaps in case of lack of space you have to think about doing so.
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Re: Looking for the Paraiba

Post  Pterophyllum on Thu 30 Apr 2015, 23:57

Good luck with your project Atreyu. Although I often find that it's not the fish you're aiming for that catch the eye, but some of the incidental by-products!

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Re: Looking for the Paraiba

Post  Atreyu on Fri 01 May 2015, 06:13

Hello Pterophyllum:

En efecto con esta última combinación los "Paraiba" que obtendríamos serían del 3.125%, aunque con otras variedades interesantes. Con los F2 " +/S - pb/+ " se obtendrían el doble de ejemplares 6,25%, y por tanto mayores posibilidades de éxito.

A greeting

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Google translator

In fact this last combination the "Paraiba" that would obtain the 3.125%, although with other interesting varieties. F2 with "+ / S - pb / +" double copies 6.25% would be obtained, and therefore a greater chance of success.
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Re: Looking for the Paraiba

Post  Atreyu on Tue 05 May 2015, 09:37

Actualizo el tema, los juveniles ya tienen 38 días desde su nacimiento. En el vídeo vemos los Fenotipos aparecidos, entre ellos el Negro Fantasma y el Plata fantasma ambos portadores del gen Philippine Blue y que serán objeto de engorde para llevarlos a la siguiente línea reproductiva.

Los escalares miden 1,5 cm.




A greeting

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Google translator

I update the topic, youth and have 38 days from birth. In the video we see the phenotypes appeared, including the Black Ghost and the Silver Ghost, both carry the gene Philippine Blue and shall be fattening to take the next reproductive online.

The Angelfish measure 1,5 cm
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Re: Looking for the Paraiba

Post  Atreyu on Mon 11 May 2015, 21:18

Upload some pictures of the four lines obtained with the crossing:

Black, Black Ghost, Silver and Silver Ghost.

Black.




Black Ghost.








Silver.


Silver Ghost.






Last edited by Atreyu on Mon 11 May 2015, 21:22; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Looking for the Paraiba

Post  Atreyu on Mon 11 May 2015, 21:21

Cuando los observo y busco captar fotos de sus variaciones, me sorprende como otras veces algo que nunca os he planteado.

Siguiendo en especial a los Negros Fantasma, (Black Ghost), ¿que hace que estos muestren un patrón diferente?. ¿Porqué unos tienen el cuerpo totalmente limpio de franjas?, ¿Porqué otros presentan las típicas manchas "Spotted"?, y ¿otros las franjas seccionadas?, siendo todos portadores de D/+ - S/+.

Google translator
When I observe and seek to capture photos of their variations, as sometimes it surprises me something that I have never considered.

Following particularly the Black Ghost, what makes these show a different pattern ?. Why they have a completely clean body stripes ?, Why others present the typical "Spotted" ?, and other sectioned strips ?, being all carriers D / + - S / +
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Re: Looking for the Paraiba

Post  Pterophyllum on Mon 11 May 2015, 23:07

Nice looking fish.

I'm afraid google isn't translating your question clearly.
Ghosts are often have some random black blotches and, in my experience, black fish tend to have more of them than is the case for silver ghosts.

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Re: Looking for the Paraiba

Post  Deans_Angels on Mon 11 May 2015, 23:11

When you do the cross, for example: (a/+) x (a/+) the result is:

+/+ 25%
a/+ 50%*
a/a 25%

* 50% - half of these are a/+ and the other half will actually be +/a
The 'Wild' allele in a/+ or +/a is enough to enable the production of melanin, so the albino doesn't show up, but they are carriers.

So, it's like a switch, which is either off (+/+), both on and off OR off and on (a/+ or +/a), or on (a/a). In the case of a ghost S/+ or +/S (both) I suspect that there is more scope for variety:

1% S and 99% +
2% S and 98% +
3% S and 97% +
and so on and so forth, up to:
99% S and 1% +... all of which would still be classed as S/+ which is either S/+ or +/S.

- I have a batch of white gold marble ghosts, they all show unique patterns (variety).

Although there is variety within het, the 'switch' controls a specific circuit, which would explain why the dark patches only appear in certain places, for example, where the stripes would have been anyway. So, although there is a switch, there is still a 'framework' / circuit or rules, which govern the development of the fish. If there were no rules we'd end up with fish with 5 tails and 3 heads. That's my thinking around it.




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Re: Looking for the Paraiba

Post  Atreyu on Tue 12 May 2015, 17:35

Gracias Pterophyllum y Deans.

Me gusta el razonamiento de Deans. Incluso comparable al resto de genes que se pueden presentar en nuestros Angelfish.

En este caso podemos deducir que la presencia de un gen u otro "+" o "S" vendrá determinada por la dominancia de un gen u otro y que esta variará en cada pez dependiendo de sus características genéticas propias.

Google trasnlator
Thanks Pterophyllum and Deans.

I like the reasoning of Deans. Even comparable to other genes that may occur in our Angelfish.

In this case we can conclude that the presence of a gene or other "+" or "S" is determined by the dominance of a gene or another and that each fish will vary depending on their own genetic characteristics.
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Re: Looking for the Paraiba

Post  Deans_Angels on Tue 12 May 2015, 20:12

It's not as simple as just dominant OR recessive.
When the alleles are the same. for example +/+ or g/g there is no argument between the alleles, they are what they are.

When the alleles are not the same, the alleles interact with each other which results in either:

a) Complete Dominance
An example cross is (+/+) x (g/g) [silver x gold] where all the young will be het for the g allele, but the phenotype (what they look like) will be wild silvers. Therefore the wild allele (+) is dominant to the gold allele (g) AND of course, the gold allele is recessive to the wild (+) allele.

b) Incomplete Dominance
An example of this is a dark blue flower crossed with a white flower, with the result of a light blue flower.
So this is when the phenotype (what it looks like) is a new merged version of both the parents.

c) Co-dominance
An example of this is a dark blue flower crossed with a white flower, with the result of a dark blue and white flower.
So this is when the phenotype (what it looks like) is like both the parents, in different parts.

Environmental factors play a part too, sometimes you can change the colour of a flower, depending on the pH of the soil it is grown in.

It's also important to be aware that 'dominance' is only the interaction between two alleles. For example the Gold Marble (Gm) allele can be dominant to one allele and recessive to another, in the case of Hybrid Black (D/Gm) where Gold Marble is recessive but yet dominant to wild, as in Silver Gold Marble (Gm/+).

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Re: Looking for the Paraiba

Post  Atreyu on Wed 13 May 2015, 21:02

Thanks Deans. Wink
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Re: Looking for the Paraiba

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