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Wish me luck!

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Wish me luck!

Post  Pterophyllum on Sun 23 Nov 2014, 22:49

Some of you may remember the wild caught Rio Nanay angels I got about this time last year ....
http://www.uk-angelfishforum.org.uk/t595-rio-nanays-a-few-others

Well sadly I've not had a lot of luck with these, I lost a couple which simply went thin & didn't respond to worming treatments and a couple more that developed a nasty ulcerous condition which wouldn't respond to treatment. I'm not sure if it was something they were carrying, or something they picked up from some Czech half blacks that I brought in at about the same time. Anyway I'm down to one which I suspect is a female, but so far I haven't managed to persuade it to breed. So.....

...I treated myself to some, allegedly Rio Nanay F1's from a new Czech supplier we were trying out. It's always a risk when buying something like this sight unseen, and it can be something of a lottery as to what turns up. Well, I'm slightly puzzled, but overall fairly pleased....

I received 6 adult sized fish of which this one is fairly typical :-



body shape, the patches of orange colouration and the blue iridescence on the gills, are all very similar to my original wild fish, but what about the missing body bars? One possible explanation would be that the fish have a stripeless gene, but if so this would mean they aren't pure bred f1's. I think more likely that they've been raised in continuous light, something that can also cause broken bars http://www.theangelfishsociety.org/forum/content.php/50-Dr-Norton-Article-Continuous-Light-Affects-on-Patterns

Either way, they give me the the necessary Peruvian characteristics that I want to introduce to some of my lines, if only I can breed them.....

...and that's where the "wish me luck" comes in. A few days ago I put one of my Manacapuru cross fish in with them, and a couple of days later I noticed that it had paired with one of the Nanays, so I popped them in a breeding tank, and 48 hours later they're guarding eggs...



Not the best photo, as I didn't want to stress them with a flash, but you can just see the eggs on the spawning cone, the mother on the right is looking at them.
Up to now I wasn't sure on the sex of the Manacapuru, but her breeding tube was far enough down this morning, and she's much slimmer now, so I can be pretty confident.

I have named the Male Paddington, and the female The Angel Islington or Izzy for short. There's a good number of eggs and they seem particularly large, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed for some Manu-Nanus bounce

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Re: Wish me luck!

Post  wildreddeer on Mon 24 Nov 2014, 18:39

Wish you all the luck in the world Rob. If anybody can do it you can. I know you will have better luck than I did when tried similar. I know your keep us all posted.
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Re: Wish me luck!

Post  Pterophyllum on Wed 26 Nov 2014, 10:49

Well they're learning, and a lot of the eggs seemed to disappear, but this morning they've got a few wrigglers, so at least I know I've got a confirmed pair.

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Re: Wish me luck!

Post  bridgegirl99 on Wed 26 Nov 2014, 14:37

well done Rob, love to know how these progress Very Happy

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Re: Wish me luck!

Post  Pterophyllum on Sun 01 Feb 2015, 22:43

Sadly the wrigglers disappeared, and because they started bickering, and I was going away for a few days, it seemed prudent to move them to a community tank. This often seems to help reinforce the pair bond, and they're now working as a team to guard a corner of the tank, I may well put them back in a breeding tank in a day or so.

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Re: Wish me luck!

Post  Pterophyllum on Fri 27 Mar 2015, 21:24

I put them back together a few weeks ago and on their 2nd attempt :-



free swimming this morning bounce bounce bounce

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Re: Wish me luck!

Post  Deans_Angels on Mon 30 Mar 2015, 00:04

Lovely. No Easter holidays for you, you'll be too busy on shrimp duties! Razz It will be interesting to see what these two produce.

I'd be saying to them 'Good fish, well done' Very Happy


Last edited by Deans_Angels on Mon 30 Mar 2015, 00:12; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : I love to edit)

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Re: Wish me luck!

Post  Grummie2 on Mon 30 Mar 2015, 16:20

Congrats Rob! Looks to be a fair sized spawn; there should be some beautiful offspring from those two!

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Re: Wish me luck!

Post  Pterophyllum on Sat 11 Apr 2015, 23:19

Looks to be a fair sized spawn
Yep, there's probably a couple of hundred

there should be some beautiful offspring from those two!
I certainly hope so.

It's very noticeable how differently different pairs behave when their babies go free swimming, some take them straight to the top of the tank, others bring them proudly to the front, and others, like this pair, keep them right at the back and as hidden as possible. For two weeks they've kept them cooped up at the back of the tank, finally bringing them to the front where I could get a few, half decent, shots this evening. Even then the mother disappeared as soon as she saw the camera. Still here's a few photos of dad with babies, sorry about the algae & snail on the glass, but if I'd cleaned it, there wouldn't have been anything to photograph!






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Re: Wish me luck!

Post  Akasha on Sun 12 Apr 2015, 10:59

second attempt?! Sulking here lol! I'm on spawn 5 and they've still not got it right!

Lovely fish though - good luck Very Happy
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Re: Wish me luck!

Post  Pterophyllum on Wed 15 Apr 2015, 22:45

second attempt?! Sulking here lol! I'm on spawn 5 and they've still not got it right!
To be fair, that's second attempt on being put together in a breeding tank for the second time, first time round saw at least a couple of lots of eggs/wrigglers disappear. This time however they've done a brilliant job, I removed the parents today, nearly a month after the eggs were laid, there must be about 200 babies and they're starting to look like angelfish.

Note: These photos are a good example of why it's important to clean the glass before you start taking photos :-



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Re: Wish me luck!

Post  Akasha on Thu 16 Apr 2015, 16:37

don't they look odd! It's the very first time I've seen angelfish this young. They look more like rams with funny fins at this stage. Very very cute though Very Happy
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Re: Wish me luck!

Post  Deans_Angels on Thu 16 Apr 2015, 23:11

You'll be amazed if you watch your own grow, each day they change. After about a month, you end up with something that resembles an angelfish. I think it's better to see them with parents, but the development is similar. How do a few brine shrimp fuel such a change? when you think about what happens it's quite mind blowing. I'm sure everyone has that 'wow' moment.

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Re: Wish me luck!

Post  Pterophyllum on Fri 17 Apr 2015, 00:17

I think it's better to see them with parents
I agree, the only problem is that the young tend to nibble at the parent's fins, there comes a point when the parents have had enough! Still I kept the parents with them for nearly a month!

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Re: Wish me luck!

Post  bridgegirl99 on Fri 17 Apr 2015, 07:59

Looking great Rob well done Very Happy

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Re: Wish me luck!

Post  Pterophyllum on Thu 07 May 2015, 01:29

Getting bigger.....




I'm hoping that the yellow colouration between the black bands is a good indication of good body colour when they're older.

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Re: Wish me luck!

Post  Akasha on Thu 07 May 2015, 09:54

now they look like angels! Hope they carry on doing well Smile
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Re: Wish me luck!

Post  Deans_Angels on Fri 08 May 2015, 01:02

They're coming along nicely and their stripes aren't broken. I'll assume you aren't raising them under constant light, unless you tell me otherwise. Very good, I'm sure they'll be amazing when they round up a bit. You can tell at this stage, they're going to have impressive fins, great pictures - thanks for sharing.

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Re: Wish me luck!

Post  Pterophyllum on Fri 08 May 2015, 01:30

I'll assume you aren't raising them under constant light
Correct, lights are on for about 14 hours a day.

they're going to have impressive fins
I certainly hope so.

great pictures
Thanks!


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Re: Wish me luck!

Post  Pterophyllum on Fri 22 May 2015, 19:25

Well it looks like I could find myself with more silver angels than I know what to do with!
The youngsters from the 1st Rio Nanay x 50% Manacapuru pair are are coming on nicely, and now a second pair have a big cloud of free swimmers


Personally I think this male is nicer than the father from the first pair....


....and I think the mother shows more of her Manacapuru heritage...


Add to that, no photos but, a third pair consisting of a third male Czech bred Rio Nanay & a wild caught female Rio Nanay whose eggs hatched into wrigglers today.

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Re: Wish me luck!

Post  Deans_Angels on Fri 22 May 2015, 22:40

Cool Very nice, I bet they're a real joy. I could sit and watch those parenting for hours.

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Re: Wish me luck!

Post  Akasha on Sun 24 May 2015, 10:16

wow ... I don't know how you cope with it all! Breeding is hard work and so I can't imagine having several fish all breeding. It's rewarding too, that much I also know. What do you do with all the young fish? You must have hundreds!
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Re: Wish me luck!

Post  Pterophyllum on Tue 26 May 2015, 11:17

What do you do with all the young fish? You must have hundreds!
It helps that I own a shop! But I think I may find myself rather over run with silvers, especially as the wild Nanay female & her mate seem to be doing a good job (their babies went free swimming this morning).....


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Re: Wish me luck!

Post  Akasha on Tue 26 May 2015, 12:41

of course I forgot about your shop! I hope all your babies find good homes Smile
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Re: Wish me luck!

Post  Pterophyllum on Sun 05 Jul 2015, 23:55

Quick photo update :-

1st batch of "Manu Nanus", these are bold as brass, they always swim confidently at the front of their tank, with their fins erect and their black banding jet black..........



.....unless you point a camera at them!

Point a camera at them and they cower at the back, fins clamped and banding faded to nothing, so these were the best photos I could get, the red colouration is exaggerated compared to real life....




No such problems with the pure bred Rio Nanays. Encouragingly although there are just 16 survivors from this batch, all are showing good banding, unlike Dad. Anyway 16 is enough for me to be going on with.....



This second photo clearly shows the characteristic Nanay black mark at the base of the dorsal between the two body bands

The next photo is from my second batch of "Manu Nanus" which are a few days older than the pure bred Nanays. Although this next fish has faded out it's bands, it makes an interesting comparison with the fish above.


Notice how much thicker the bands are, once again, the photo does exaggerate the amount of red, in part because the water in their tank is stained with tanins from bogwood. None the less, their fins are redder, and their bodies do have more of a golden tint to them.

The older "Manu Nanus" are just starting to develop their dorsal striations, I'll be interested to see how these compare with the pure bred Nanays.

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Re: Wish me luck!

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