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Unexpected New Spawn

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Unexpected New Spawn

Post  uk bulldog on Mon 04 Mar 2013, 16:18

On Saturday evening i noticed that in my stock tank one of the smokey blue marbles i got from Rob had laid eggs on a large peice of slate & was accompanied by a blue smokey pearlscale that i got from Ste sold as KK strain blue smokey pinoy which is 1 of 2 that i bought at the time.The Blue Smokey Marble had me guesing for a long time as to its sex as (SHE) imo looks & acts like a male (oh how i was wrong) but a very nice fish indeed.The Male on the other hand, although a very nice fish im unsure of how it was labled when bought, as he looks the same as any other blue smokey pearscale i've had so unless he has a hiden dark gene surely he is just a blue smokey? Knowing who sold him a would not think he was misslabled but im not sure.So was wondering if anybody could throw any light on the subject please. The only reason i ask this is because i want to work out what i should get from this spawn.

Its now monday & all eggs are still there or should i say where there & being well cared for when i left for work this mornig so im hopeing they will go free swimming soon, i put a divider in the tank so they have plenty of room & no others to pester them.For 1st timers they seem to be doing a great job have given a very good sized spawn & from what i have seen there where only a couple of white eggs & the female done a great job of removeing them without being tempted to eat any others.
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Re: Unexpected New Spawn

Post  Pterophyllum on Mon 04 Mar 2013, 16:31

Some (many!) people do get confused by the naming of some of the blue varieties, some use pinoy in place of Philippine blue, others think that pinoy means wifi. I'm sure Ste named them in good faith on the basis of what he was told they were, but if it looks like a blue smokey pearlscale, that's probably what it is.

As to the female blue marble looking like a male, that seems to run in the family, when I originally paired her Grandparents together I thought the male was a female and the female a male! But if she's belidgerent like a male, she's likely to be an excellent parent.

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Re: Unexpected New Spawn

Post  uk bulldog on Mon 04 Mar 2013, 16:39

Thanks Rob as i thought regards the Male as i know Ste as a very respectable aquarist & trust him wholeheartedly regards his fish & i know he would not misslead knowingly.
And yes the female is very belidgerent to say the least.
I have her sibling in with the males sibling but they or should i say the Male has eaten the eggs & free swimmers on 3 ocations, but sofar so good with this one as he only seems intrested in fanning the eggs & looks like he could well be a good one.


Last edited by uk bulldog on Mon 04 Mar 2013, 16:59; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Unexpected New Spawn

Post  uk bulldog on Mon 04 Mar 2013, 16:58

So going with the Male being a Blue Smokey Pearlscale i should get a mixture of the following from this pairing all being well. Very Happy

# Phenotypes %
1 Blue silver 12.5 %
2 Blue smokey 25 %
3 Blue chocolate 12.5 %
4 Blue marble 12.5 %
5 Blue smokey marble 25 %
6 Blue chocolate marble 12.5 %


A percentage of which will carry the pearlscale gene.
I will now keep my fingers crossed hopeing on a good outcome.
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Re: Unexpected New Spawn

Post  Pterophyllum on Mon 04 Mar 2013, 17:09

I can't remember which batch of blue marbles you had for sure, but if it's the batch I think it was....
the male was a chocolate pearlscale, so the female will be het. for pearlscale, there's also a possibility that she's got a stripeless gene hiding in there, so you may well get a bit more variation in the fry than you're expecting. Especially if the male has a gold and/or stripeless gene to throw into the mix!

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Blue Angels

Post  TONY,S ANGELS on Mon 04 Mar 2013, 17:24

Hi Paul
Hope this will help you, if mean ste chester ste12000 from runcorn the best one to ask
will be baldy dave as i think all the Blue fish ste sold he got from Dave.
Cheers Tony
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Re: Unexpected New Spawn

Post  uk bulldog on Mon 04 Mar 2013, 19:41

Hi Tony its funny you should say that as i was thinking the same thing Very Happy
Plus if it was from Dave & i remember correctly, but i may be wrong as thats not unknown
its from a pair where Dave lost one,& he also looks the same as the ones Dave posted pics of on here by which i mean body shape & finnage.
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Re: Unexpected New Spawn

Post  uk bulldog on Mon 04 Mar 2013, 19:56

Hi Rob thanks for that insight as to the pearlscale gene because on a couple of the fish that i received from you you can makeout a more prononced scaleing as if they are Het
but not showing fully as it would if they were pearlscale if that makes sense.
I had 8 from you in totall 4 were M/+ Sm/+ Pb/Pb & 4 were M/g Sm/+ Pb/Pb if im right.
The female in this pair is M/+.
Now im really lost as to what could be in the bunch,Cheers Rob Wink
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Re: Unexpected New Spawn

Post  uk bulldog on Tue 05 Mar 2013, 10:16

Update on this spawn. When i got home from work last night i had half the spawn as wrigglers & the other half were wriggling this morning but what i did notice was that both parents where totally bewilderd by what was going on & were not sure what to do
if any fell off the slate,so now a few have rolled down the slate but seem to be sticking to it further down & the pair are looking on as if to say so what happens now.
I just hope that they dont start to eat them due to inexperiance & manage to raise a few first time around.
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Feeding

Post  TONY,S ANGELS on Tue 05 Mar 2013, 10:52

Hi Paul
Glad to hear things are going well , At this stage is were i put lots of white worm into
the tank a bit like conffetti and then they get all the protein they need, And the best thing is that
white worm can stay alive in the tank for 24hrs so they do not polute the water.
By far the best thing i have found to work to stop a pair eating the young at that stage.
If you do not have any just PM me your address and I will send you some.
Hope all go's well.
cheers Tony
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Re: Unexpected New Spawn

Post  uk bulldog on Tue 05 Mar 2013, 14:41

Hi Tony thats a kind offer pm sent & thank you kindly sir Very Happy
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White worm

Post  TONY,S ANGELS on Wed 06 Mar 2013, 15:03

Hi Paul
Hope all is going well with the new fry, have put some white worm in a plastic tub in a padded
enverlope 1pm today for next day delivery. So you should have them tomorrow ( Thursday )
Cheers Tony
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Re: Unexpected New Spawn

Post  uk bulldog on Wed 06 Mar 2013, 17:02

Hi Tony,thank you for being so kind with the white worm im sure the fish will enjoy them Very Happy
The fry are doing well,once the female realised that you dont eat them when they fall off the slate & you spit them back she started to be really attentative as does the male who just seemed to get the nack straight away.
She managed to eat a couple of dozen at the most but there are still about 150/200 left & if all carries on as is i will be a happy bunny Very Happy as this is there 1st spawn after all.
I guess the next trick is to get them freeswimming without any hassles & eating then it should be a home run & i will have a great pair of parent raisers.
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Re: Unexpected New Spawn

Post  uk bulldog on Thu 07 Mar 2013, 07:10

Just an update on this spawn as its now Thursday morning & all fry are doing well & looking like they want to go free swimming,so i hope when i get home from work tonight
i have a nice cloud of young in the tank & mum has chosen to leave them aloan rather than eat them through panic not nowing what to do.
The next thing i then have to think about is when to take the chance & turn the light out as i have left it on since i noticed the eggs had been layed scratch
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Keep light on

Post  TONY,S ANGELS on Thu 07 Mar 2013, 07:46

Hi paul
I never leave my fish with out a light on they have main lights say from 6.00am to 10.30pm
then i put a dim night light on to act as the moon light i think it keeps the fish to day and night
routine better.
Cheers Tony
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Re: Unexpected New Spawn

Post  uk bulldog on Thu 07 Mar 2013, 10:20

Hi Tony
The light only looks dim in the tank due to all the tanins in the water,i have got that on all the time at the mo plus the normal daylight from the window in daylight hours.
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Day / Night

Post  TONY,S ANGELS on Fri 08 Mar 2013, 07:26

Hi Paul
Sounds like you have a Day / night system .
Cheers Tony
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Re: Unexpected New Spawn

Post  uk bulldog on Fri 08 Mar 2013, 08:30

All seems to be doing well thanks Tony regards the lights but was hopeing to turn them off during the night & just use a small lamp across the room rather than the tank light.
The white worms arrived yesterday so a BIG THANK YOU again Tony,& i will get a culture on the go thanks to you.I have also orderd a micro worm starter culture as well as a vinager eel culture so a good mix of live food for the future Very Happy
The fry had moved from the slate to the rear glass of the tank & some have settled on the sponge filter which i have running slowly so they must have all had a bit of a first swim yesterday unless mum had moved them & this morning i was able to see just how many there are & as a rough
guess i would say about the 200 mark but it could be a few less.
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Very Busy

Post  TONY,S ANGELS on Fri 08 Mar 2013, 15:44

Sounds like you are going to be very busy with all that.
al the best with every thing.
Cheers Tony
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Re: Unexpected New Spawn

Post  uk bulldog on Mon 11 Mar 2013, 07:30

Update On this spawn:
On saturday i found that the fish in the otherside of the tank where sucking the fry through the divider,so i moved all other fish to another tank to give the parents a chance,but by doing this the parents put all the fry in the lower front corner of the tank
and now will not let them anymore than a couple of inches of the bottom,which is causeing me concern as the fry are feeding but not being allowed to rise to eat, 99%
seem fine but the 1% look like bellyslides i have checked water conditions & all seems fine.Its now monday & things have not changed should i be worried?

Paul..
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Re: Unexpected New Spawn

Post  Pterophyllum on Mon 11 Mar 2013, 08:43

I wouldn't worry too much but bizarely it might be a good idea not to feed the babies for 24-36 hours....

Firstly if there is less food the parents will have to allow them to roam more freely to find what there is.
Secondly it may be that the bellysliders are resulting from overfeeding, the parents may be trying to keep their whole family together, if 10% are bellysliders, then the other 90% will have to stay with them at the bottom of the tank to achieve this.
All that said, the way that parents choose to guard their free swimmers seems very variable, some keep them in a tight ball near the surface, others near the bottom, and others let them wander anywhere they like as long as they don't stray too far.
Some race to the rear of the tank when I go near, others bring them to the front to get brine shrimp as soon as it arrives.
In short, as the babies grow, I'm sure the parents will relax a bit!

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Fry

Post  TONY,S ANGELS on Mon 11 Mar 2013, 09:45

Hi Paul
I think Rob has covered it really, The only thing I can add is if it is a bare tank put a couple
Of pots or such like in or if you have bog wood and or pots in there already move them about
Takes the parent fish some time to adjust and they leave the fry to spead out a bit.
Works for me some times, But if you feel they are starving them remove the parents.
Cheers Tony
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Re: Unexpected New Spawn

Post  uk bulldog on Mon 11 Mar 2013, 12:39

Hi Rob & Tony thanks for your replys

1st off i am only feeding as & when the bellies are no longer orange so twice a day at the moment & i wouldnt say im overfeeding with any given amount as none look blowted
at all.
Although i do feel its the parents trying to keep them together.Before i removed the divider the parents didnt mind me going anywhere near the tank to have a look but since then they have become very protective & want to attack you just for walking in the room so im hopeing this is the cause, so im staying away except for when feeding (well trying to)
I had to go back home for something a little earlier so took a look & all seem to me off the bottom & dont look like belly sliders at all & i couldnt see any dead nor have i found any dead up until now.The parents just apear tobe keeping them low & if one swims off mum or dad are straight after them suck them up & bring them back to the rest.

Well with my mind now at rest i will just wait & see what comes next with this pair as they have realy suprised me with & seem to be very good at what must come natural.
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Re: Unexpected New Spawn

Post  uk bulldog on Thu 14 Mar 2013, 07:53

Update on this spawn:
I took what advice Rob gave me regards holding back on the food for 36 hours & the fry are more eager to rise from the bottom to eat & the parents
have relaxed again & letting the fry swim more than just a couple of inches of the bottom even letting a few wonder off aslong as not to far.But it does seem as though they are letting what are without a dout the bigger fry do the wondering & still keeping the smaller ones close,i havent seen this before, its just like letting the bigger kids go play.The fry have almost doubled in size so i would say doing well,but im keeping the feeding to 2 times a day at the moment & tank maintainance is only when it really is needed & im only cleaning one end of the tank as the fry are at the other & the parents have stoped attacking me now so i am sure that the upset on saturday by removeing the divider has been the cause of parents forceing the young to stay in the bottom corner rather than swim up high as they were beforehand.
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Normal

Post  TONY,S ANGELS on Thu 14 Mar 2013, 08:59

Hi Paul
Sounds like the pair have been a bit over protective at first with all the other
fish in the tank, And are now a good pair.
Cheers Tony
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Re: Unexpected New Spawn

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