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What is the genotype?

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What is the genotype?

Post  raiko on Wed 19 Sep 2012, 22:19

What is the genotype? As Rob would ask .... I certainly know the answer, but I expect your suggestions. Very Happy















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Re: What is the genotype?

Post  Pterophyllum on Wed 19 Sep 2012, 23:01

Ok, since I would ask, I'd better answer...

First glance it looks like a platinum, you can see a faint hint of the vertical bands where the colour is just slightly lighter, so not a ghost. The faint black shadow in the dorsal fin looks very reminiscent of your BSP's, so.....

either
bsp/bsp
g/g - bsp/bsp
or pb/pb - bsp/bsp



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Re: What is the genotype?

Post  raiko on Wed 19 Sep 2012, 23:27

Excellent, Rob! This is a new form of Platinum angelfish, but no gold gene! They are: pb/pb - bg/bg. The parents of these fish are: D/+ - +/pb - +/bg.




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Re: What is the genotype?

Post  Pterophyllum on Thu 20 Sep 2012, 00:09

They are: pb/pb - bg/bg
bg being Bulgarian green I presume?

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Re: What is the genotype?

Post  raiko on Thu 20 Sep 2012, 00:36

Yes, Rob. "bsp" = bg (Bulgarian Green gene). This is the name of the new gene, which I use to show my crosses.
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Re: What is the genotype?

Post  Ghipsi on Thu 20 Sep 2012, 07:43

Fantstic, a Platinum without the g gene, exciting stuff. Keep us updated as to how the bsp affects other genes!
Lisa

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Re: What is the genotype?

Post  Grummie2 on Thu 20 Sep 2012, 10:23

Fascinating! There's hardly any fin striations either. Putting the blue gene into the mix could really throw some interesting phenotypes!!

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Re: What is the genotype?

Post  raiko on Fri 21 Sep 2012, 23:12

Thank you!
Ghipsi wrote:Fantstic, a Platinum without the g gene, exciting stuff. Keep us updated as to how the bsp affects other genes!
Lisa
I promise, Lisa!
These are other siblings of this generation:









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Re: What is the genotype?

Post  raiko on Tue 09 Oct 2012, 21:20

The double dose of pb increases the glamor of BSP angelfish.


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Re: What is the genotype?

Post  raiko on Wed 14 Nov 2012, 21:33

The old topic was lost and I will continue in this topic. Several months ago I did a cross between blushing BSP (D/Gm - S/S - bg/bg) and Manacapuru (wild type) . This is their generation (first two photos). Now I got F2 generation of this cross. The pair is shown in the third picture:





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Re: What is the genotype?

Post  raiko on Wed 14 Nov 2012, 21:43

F2 generation:















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Re: What is the genotype?

Post  raiko on Wed 14 Nov 2012, 21:54

Short video with Silver blushing (S/S) , blushing BSP (D/+ - S/S - bg/bg) and (S/S - bg/bg) :

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Re: What is the genotype?

Post  Grummie2 on Thu 15 Nov 2012, 09:43

Beautiful and interesting! Which is your favourite Raiko? Have you decided which direction you'll go with the F2 crosses? Have you done a cross using the F1's that carry the Gm gene?

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Re: What is the genotype?

Post  raiko on Fri 16 Nov 2012, 21:21

From F2 generation I will keep 10 pieces (D/+ - bg/bg). I have several sexually mature fish from F1 (Gm/+ - S/+ - bg/bg), but I do not expect the appearance of new phenotypes in their offspring. Unfortunately I do not have enough space to do all possible crosses. Currently I have about 250 adult angelfish. They are too much for my fishroom. Soon I hope to get a generation from (D/+ - Sm/+ - +/bg).
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Re: What is the genotype?

Post  Pterophyllum on Sat 17 Nov 2012, 21:12

Soon I hope to get a generation from (D/+ - Sm/+ - +/bg).
I suspect that might be an interesting cross, to my eyes the appearance of bg fish is quite similar to the appearance of young (4 - 8 weeks approx) smokeys, and I wonder if the bg might be a mutated version of the smokey gene.

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Re: What is the genotype?

Post  raiko on Sun 18 Nov 2012, 21:30

Rob, do you think it is possible to dominant gene mutated in recessive? Over the past 15 years I have not had smokey angelfish. I bought my smokey angelfish after the appearance of the new gene.
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Re: What is the genotype?

Post  Pterophyllum on Sun 18 Nov 2012, 22:22

Hi Raiko,
gold is recessive, dark dominant, or at least incomplete or co-dominant, yet they are alleles.

We angelfish breeders talk about the gold gene, the dark gene, the marble gene and the gold marble gene. This is a rather imprecise and slightly misleading use of the term "gene", geneticists would think of them as different versions of the same gene.

As well as the smokey mutation, there is also the wild type allele, both the smokey mutation and the original un-mutated version of the gene probably have some influence on the development of the fish's colour/pattern.

When I said
I wonder if the bg might be a mutated version of the smokey gene.

I was thinking of the smokey locus, not necessarily a mutation of a smokey version of the gene found at that locus.

I have been struck by the similarity in appearance between the original D/g - bg/bg fish and that of young smokeys just starting to develop the pattern, it is particularily apparent in smokeys with other mutations which tend to reduce the amount of black pigment, mutations like Philippine blue and stripeless, this young smokey paraiba illustrates my point.



I'm not confident that smokey and bg are alleles, but if you do your crosses and find that they are, then I won't be surprised!


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Re: What is the genotype?

Post  raiko on Mon 19 Nov 2012, 21:32

Rob, thanks for the clarification! As always, your posts are detailed and meaningful. I always manage to learn something new from them, for which I am grateful!
If these two genes (Sm and bg) are of the same locus, there is one difference between them. Gm can suppress Sm, but not bg. These are some pictures of (Gm/Gm - S/+ - bg/bg):









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Re: What is the genotype?

Post  raiko on Wed 21 Nov 2012, 21:49

Today I separated a new pair:





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Re: What is the genotype?

Post  Grummie2 on Wed 21 Nov 2012, 23:14

Now this should be really interesting!!!!

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Re: What is the genotype?

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