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Aggressive Angel

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Aggressive Angel

Post  gibbo156 on Tue 08 May 2012, 16:31

I bought some blues from Lisa at the BCA auction on Sunday
Everything is fine and they look really beautiful in my display tank, which is where they will live until some pairs start to form.

Only one problem.

After introcuding the new angels, the biggest of my existing angels ( who always acted like he(?) was tank boss ) decided to get aggressive. The two large blues were harrassed constantly and eventually took up residence out of sight.

I have moved the aggressive angel out of the tank and all is peaceful again.

I intend to move the offending angel back again after a few days and see if he(?) behaves himself . I was thinking that he might not be so aggressive if he becomes the newcomer instead of the owner of the tank.

He(?) is an adolescent veil that i got from a LFS a few months ago. He possibly had one wild parent.

He is the best looking angel i have and i wanted to pair him with one of Lisa's blues, but that won't work if he attacks every blue angel that he comes into contact with.

Any opinions on curing an aggressive angel?
Or am i just dreaming and would i be better making plans for another home for him?


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Re: Aggressive Angel

Post  endlessendlers on Tue 08 May 2012, 17:39

I've read that some people move plants and ornaments around the tank to help with aggressive angels. Something to do with territorial boundaries. You could try this and after a few days re-introduce the agressive one. Also, I've read people put dividers in until the aggression subsides. I've tried moving the aggressor out for a week or so and then re-introducing to the tank. This didn't work for me, but you may have more luck.
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Re: Aggressive Angel

Post  gibbo156 on Tue 08 May 2012, 18:06

Thanks for replying.

A week or two ? ?

I was hoping for a couple of days!

I have been cutting the plants back today. Hopefully by the time i try reintroducing the aggressive angel he won't know where he is.

I will try to be patient ( not something that i am very good at ! ) and leave it as long as i can before the reintroduction.

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Re: Aggressive Angel

Post  endlessendlers on Tue 08 May 2012, 18:47

Perhaps a week is a little excessive, but it gives your blues a chance to settle too. Patience is a virtue after all. lol!
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Re: Aggressive Angel

Post  Pterophyllum on Tue 08 May 2012, 19:18

Find something to bully the bully!
Puting it in with a couple of big adults and let him find out what happens if he throws his weight around! Often works.

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Re: Aggressive Angel

Post  gibbo156 on Tue 08 May 2012, 19:32

That certainly sounds like a good idea.
But i am new to this and don't have any adults yet.

Thanks anyway

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Re: Aggressive Angel

Post  Ghipsi on Wed 09 May 2012, 00:16

Ok, the way I deal with these problems are:
Put all those involved with the incedents in a bucket of tank water, basicly they all need to get a little stressed together, rearange a few bits in the tank so that things look different, put all the angels back & they will then kling to each other Very Happy
I do this when putting new pairs together, works a treat Very Happy
Lisa

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Re: Aggressive Angel

Post  gibbo156 on Wed 09 May 2012, 08:15

Thanks Lisa,

I am willing to try anything! I am keen to breed my veiled angel with one of your blues and don't want to fall at the first hurdle.

Stay in touch and i'll let you know how i get on.

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Re: Aggressive Angel

Post  Ghipsi on Thu 10 May 2012, 07:38

Keep us updated on the progress Very Happy
Lisa

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Re: Aggressive Angel

Post  gibbo156 on Thu 10 May 2012, 20:11

Thanks everybody for the help and advice on this problem.
As you know angelfish are new to me so i am learning as i go.

Here is where i am now: -

The bullying angelfish was moved to a smaller tank for about a day and a half.
The Fish he(?) had been bullying was then moved in with him.

He(?) proceeded to bully her(?) again.

I caught him up into a large net and left him hanging while she stretched her fins for a while.

After an hour or so i reintroduced them both to the big community tank.

That was 24 hours ago.

The bullying angelfish is still definately "tank boss" and does push the other angels around a bit, but he has definitely calmed down and doesn't actually hurt any other fish. The two blues that he concentrated his bullying on no longer have to hide away and occasionally even face him down.

I am going to leave it for a day and then decide to either
1. Leave things as they are and go back to waiting to see who pairs off with who
or
2. Move The bully and the angel that i would like him to pair off with to a smaller tank to repeat the treatment, for as long as it takes this time.

PeterH - thanks for your post, but you put it in the wrong place, so i am replying here.
PeterH wrote:Hi gibbo156, I had the same problem with a couple of Koi Angels, I removed the aggressor to a small bare tank for
a couple of days, then returned it to the main tank, surprisingly the bully became the bullied for a day or two, I believe it may well have been a pecking order issue as everything is quiet again and the two fish in question are living quite peacefully together again. hopefully you will find the same with your problem fish. let us know how it goes.

Pete

Thanks again everybody, I will keep you updated.

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Back in Solitary Confinement

Post  gibbo156 on Sat 12 May 2012, 20:19

[img][/img]

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Re: Aggressive Angel

Post  endlessendlers on Sat 12 May 2012, 22:04

Oh dear, someone's been a naughty boy again. Keep trying.
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Good news, Bad news

Post  gibbo156 on Thu 17 May 2012, 19:58

Grumpy Gabriel the bullying angelfish remains in solitary confinement.
He was due for release tomorrow (Friday), but...........

Meanwhile in the display tank.....

The two blue angelfish that i bought from Lisa only 11 days ago have got together and i now have an Amazon Sword leaf covered in angel eggs. Which puts paid to my plan to mate one of them with the bully, for now anyway.

I don't suppose that i will manage to raise any fry in the display tank but i will obviously be watching with interest.

It looks like the bullying angelfish will be staying where he is until i can set up another tank specifically for breeding Angelfish.

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Re: Aggressive Angel

Post  Ghipsi on Thu 17 May 2012, 20:42

The two blue angelfish that i bought from Lisa only 11 days ago have got together and i now have an Amazon Sword leaf covered in angel eggs.

Nice one Very Happy

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and now for the punnet square

Post  gibbo156 on Thu 17 May 2012, 22:26

I don't suppose for one moment that i will raise any of the angel fry that might be born in the display tank, but i thought it would be good practice, and good fun as well, to work out what was likely to be produced from the pairing.

SO, according to the information i got from Lisa my two blue angels are ( gm/+, s/+, pb/pb ) and ( +/g, s/+, pb/pb )
According to what i have been reading the notation refers to locii 1, 5 and 9

So i got out the spreadsheet and did a punnet square to see what i might get from this pairing.

6.25% +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb
12.5% +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/s, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb
6.25% +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, s/s, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb
6.25% +/g, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb
12.5% +/g, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/s, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb
6.25% +/g, +/+, +/+, +/+, s/s, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb
6.25% Gm/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb
12.5% Gm/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/s, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb
6.25% Gm/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, s/s, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb
6.25% Gm/g, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb
12.5% Gm/g, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/s, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb
6.25% Gm/g, +/+, +/+, +/+, s/s, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb

Now i will have to work out what these mutations are called.

I want to start a project with the intention of breeding D/D, s/s, v/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb
( Dark,stripeless, veiltail, blue ) but i might mean D/+, s/s, v/+, pb/pb and i don't know what that would be called yet.

Looks like i've got a lot more studying to do!

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Re: Aggressive Angel

Post  endlessendlers on Fri 18 May 2012, 01:02

gibbo156 wrote:I don't suppose for one moment that i will raise any of the angel fry that might be born in the display tank, but i thought it would be good practice, and good fun as well, to work out what was likely to be produced from the pairing.

SO, according to the information i got from Lisa my two blue angels are ( gm/+, s/+, pb/pb ) and ( +/g, s/+, pb/pb )
According to what i have been reading the notation refers to locii 1, 5 and 9

So i got out the spreadsheet and did a punnet square to see what i might get from this pairing.

6.25% +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb - blue silver
12.5% +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/s, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb - blue ghost
6.25% +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, s/s, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb - paraiba
6.25% +/g, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb - blue silver (hidden gold gene)
12.5% +/g, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/s, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb - blue ghost (hidden gold gene)
6.25% +/g, +/+, +/+, +/+, s/s, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb - paraiba (hidden gold gene)
6.25% Gm/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb - blue silver gold marble
12.5% Gm/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/s, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb - blue silver gold marble ghost
6.25% Gm/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, s/s, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb - blue koi paraiba
6.25% Gm/g, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb - blue white gold marble
12.5% Gm/g, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/s, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb - blue white gold marble ghost
6.25% Gm/g, +/+, +/+, +/+, s/s, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb - koi paraiba

Now i will have to work out what these mutations are called.

I want to start a project with the intention of breeding D/D, s/s, v/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, +/+, pb/pb
( Dark,stripeless, veiltail, blue ) but i might mean D/+, s/s, v/+, pb/pb and i don't know what that would be called yet.

Looks like i've got a lot more studying to do!

A dark, stripless, veiltail blue would be a pinoy paraiba veiltail.

Take a look at this genetics calculator http://angelfins.ca/index.php?main_page=genetics_calculator You tap in the genes and it gives you the phenotype. I have found this invaluable.

Have fun! Very Happy
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Re: Aggressive Angel

Post  Ghipsi on Fri 18 May 2012, 01:20


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Thanks Lisa

Post  gibbo156 on Fri 18 May 2012, 08:05

Thanks for the reply Lisa, and the links.
They are high quality fish that you sold to me.

Stay happy

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Re: Aggressive Angel

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