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WC vs tank bred

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WC vs tank bred

Post  Squidward on Mon 19 Mar 2012, 16:13

Hi All,

Whenever there is some sort of hint of trouble in one of my tanks, my tank bred fish seem to get a disease/ ailment first.
Usually my Angels and also my Kribs seem very sensative too.

My wild caught fish (L Plecs, Reedfish, Rainbows) give me far less trouble.

Would it be correct to say that once acclimatised, wc fish are hardier than tank bred?

I don't have any wc Angels to compare to my fancy varieties.

Any thoughts?

Thanks
Squidward

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Re: WC vs tank bred

Post  chiligum on Mon 19 Mar 2012, 18:03

I think i depends also on what type of fish it is.
Just look at the state of a lot of domestic Guppies,Platies etc, they have been so in-bred that they are weak compared to their wild cousins.
I have had wild and domestic Discus and i must say that i've had less trouble off the wilds once they had settled in to daily life with me and my wild Altums are very tough now they have been with me for awhile. I have only lost 1 that was very skinny anyway and never really ate as much as it should of and i have 1 that is recovering from a couple of open sores but (touch wood) my others are ticking over nicely!
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Re: WC vs tank bred

Post  Squidward on Thu 22 Mar 2012, 08:23

I tihnk to a certain extent Angels are going this way too.
There are certain varieties that I cannot keep alive. Black veiltails - have tried them 3 times and cannot keep them alive Sad

A few of the other forms also seem quite disease prone.

I have never had wc Angels, but my lfs has some Peruvians and am thinking of trying them.


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Re: WC vs tank bred

Post  chiligum on Thu 22 Mar 2012, 08:28

Get some wilds, i prefer them any day over domestics (although i have to admit there are a lot of nicely coloured Angels on here that i like the look of!)
Discus or Angels, you cant beat the look of a wild fish, buy some, i can tell you now that you wont regret it!
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Re: WC vs tank bred

Post  Squidward on Thu 22 Mar 2012, 08:32

chiligum wrote:Get some wilds, i prefer them any day over domestics (although i have to admit there are a lot of nicely coloured Angels on here that i like the look of!)
Discus or Angels, you cant beat the look of a wild fish, buy some, i can tell you now that you wont regret it!

Yup, am very tempted.
The slightly worrying thing is wc fish tend to be more expensive then tb. Ends up costing if it goes wrong.

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Re: WC vs tank bred

Post  chiligum on Thu 22 Mar 2012, 09:06

But that's what you are paying the extra for, a fish that has come all the way from the Amazon River compared to a breeding shed in Grimsby!
My fish at the minute were £50 quid each and i bought 6,
I have lost one but the other 5 are ok, if they are good fish to start with, you should have no trouble at all, how much are yours then, they should only be about 30 each at the most for Scalares compared to what i paid for Altums, just go for it!
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Re: WC vs tank bred

Post  Ghipsi on Thu 22 Mar 2012, 13:41

Good strong stock that has not been over stressed, hormone fred, messed around with and not imbred is always going to be better healthier fish, whether it be Wilds (and the wholesellers put alot more money into getting them so take a bit more care with them) or quality domestics from a recomended breeder, will much stronger and have a better immune system than from some LFS or some where that they are bred for just bulk & money.
Lisa

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Re: WC vs tank bred

Post  Pterophyllum on Thu 22 Mar 2012, 21:21

As with most things I think there are pluses and minuses with tank bred and wild caught fish.
It's true that some domestic strains of fish are weaker than their wild ancestors. It's also true that excessive, indescrimate, and inadvertent inbreeding can lead to weak, deformed and disease prone stock.
On the other hand, wild fish often don't adapt well to life in captivity, they can be harder to feed, more skittish and easily frightened and often carry intestinal and other parasites.

I think it's a little unfair to compare a black veil with a wild fish. Black angels are a more delecate strain, by contrast the only wild fish you can get are "silvers" so a more reasonable comparison is a domestic silver with a wild one. There I think you'd find that in general the domestic fish was at least as hardy and long lived as it's wild counterpart. Admittedly, now more is known about the different wild populations, in appearence, most domestic silvers aren't a patch on some of the wild fish; a decent Peruvian "altum" for example or my personal favourite a good manacapuru red back would knock most domestic silvers into a cocked hat! however, the beauty of domestic fish is that you're not restricted to "silvers", if you want tough, hardy fish, stay away from albinos and to a lesser extent blacks, pearlscales and veiltails and stick to varieties like marble, gold, gold marble, and smokey. That's not to imply that blacks, albinos, etc can't be kept, if you get good stock they're almost as tough as any other angel. But when it comes to breeding, and in particular raising the fry, these varieties can be a little more tempermental.

As Lisa say's a lot depends on the the source of the fish you're buying. Unfortunately many people base their buying decisions almost entirely on price. in order to offer a keen price, many shops buy from the cheapest sources, and don't bother with quarantine, as that costs!




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Re: WC vs tank bred

Post  Squidward on Fri 23 Mar 2012, 08:41

chiligum wrote:But that's what you are paying the extra for, a fish that has come all the way from the Amazon River compared to a breeding shed in Grimsby!
My fish at the minute were £50 quid each and i bought 6,

Not disputing that!
It's the £50/fish that worries me!

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Re: WC vs tank bred

Post  Squidward on Fri 23 Mar 2012, 08:43

Ghipsi wrote:Good strong stock that has not been over stressed, hormone fred, messed around with and not imbred is always going to be better healthier fish, whether it be Wilds (and the wholesellers put alot more money into getting them so take a bit more care with them) or quality domestics from a recomended breeder, will much stronger and have a better immune system than from some LFS or some where that they are bred for just bulk & money.
Lisa

Vallid point.
The problem though is that the fish at the lfs are more accessable.
Something to be said for buying quality fish directly from a breeder.

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Re: WC vs tank bred

Post  Squidward on Fri 23 Mar 2012, 08:50

Pterophyllum wrote:As with most things I think there are pluses and minuses with tank bred and wild caught fish.
It's true that some domestic strains of fish are weaker than their wild ancestors. It's also true that excessive, indescrimate, and inadvertent inbreeding can lead to weak, deformed and disease prone stock.
On the other hand, wild fish often don't adapt well to life in captivity, they can be harder to feed, more skittish and easily frightened and often carry intestinal and other parasites.

I think it's a little unfair to compare a black veil with a wild fish. Black angels are a more delecate strain, by contrast the only wild fish you can get are "silvers" so a more reasonable comparison is a domestic silver with a wild one. There I think you'd find that in general the domestic fish was at least as hardy and long lived as it's wild counterpart. Admittedly, now more is known about the different wild populations, in appearence, most domestic silvers aren't a patch on some of the wild fish; a decent Peruvian "altum" for example or my personal favourite a good manacapuru red back would knock most domestic silvers into a cocked hat! however, the beauty of domestic fish is that you're not restricted to "silvers", if you want tough, hardy fish, stay away from albinos and to a lesser extent blacks, pearlscales and veiltails and stick to varieties like marble, gold, gold marble, and smokey. That's not to imply that blacks, albinos, etc can't be kept, if you get good stock they're almost as tough as any other angel. But when it comes to breeding, and in particular raising the fry, these varieties can be a little more tempermental.

As Lisa say's a lot depends on the the source of the fish you're buying. Unfortunately many people base their buying decisions almost entirely on price. in order to offer a keen price, many shops buy from the cheapest sources, and don't bother with quarantine, as that costs!




Apologies for the numerous postings. I don't know how to multiquote. Embarassed
(Perhaps someone can pm me a brief lesson).

Rob, yup, I think that is the problem. The fish farms breed as many fish as they can, as quickly as they can.
So the fish that arrive at the fish shop, and then your tank, could well be less than the the fittest or the strongest.

When a fish breeds in the wild, only 1 or 2 youngsters per batch may survive. "Survival of the fittest". These will be those that have a measure of disease resistance, quicker at feeding etc.

With tb fish, (particularly fish farms) the breeder will try and maximise the fry batch size and therefore profit. Some of the weaker ones will be "nurtured" when in reality, they should be culled.

Or am I over simplifying things?

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Re: WC vs tank bred

Post  chiligum on Fri 23 Mar 2012, 09:49

Squidward wrote:
chiligum wrote:But that's what you are paying the extra for, a fish that has come all the way from the Amazon River compared to a breeding shed in Grimsby!
My fish at the minute were £50 quid each and i bought 6,

Not disputing that!
It's the £50/fish that worries me!
Ha ha, £50 a fish is nothing,
wait until you get into the more colourful varieties of wild Discus, that's when you start spending real money and start worrying if they're going to be ok!
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Re: WC vs tank bred

Post  Squidward on Fri 23 Mar 2012, 09:59

chiligum wrote:
Squidward wrote:
chiligum wrote:But that's what you are paying the extra for, a fish that has come all the way from the Amazon River compared to a breeding shed in Grimsby!
My fish at the minute were £50 quid each and i bought 6,

Not disputing that!
It's the £50/fish that worries me!
Ha ha, £50 a fish is nothing,
wait until you get into the more colourful varieties of wild Discus, that's when you start spending real money and start worrying if they're going to be ok!

Rare Aquatics have got some amazing looking Wild Discus at the moment. I think they are £90 each. I am drooling Crying or Very sad

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Re: WC vs tank bred

Post  Pterophyllum on Fri 23 Mar 2012, 10:30

I don't know how to multiquote.
(Perhaps someone can pm me a brief lesson).
I'm sure you're not the only one, so for the benefit of others a post rather than a pm

Highlight & copy the text you want to quote by left clicking on the mouse, and dragging the cursor over the text whilst keeping the button pressed.

Positon your cursor in the composition window (the white bit on the screen where you type your reply) and right click, then left click on paste. eg...

Not disputing that!

now left click and drag the cursor whilst holding the mouse button to highlight the text you've just pasted. Once you've highlighted the required section, let go of the right button and click on the quote button (looks like two speech bubbles)

eg
Not disputing that!

now repeat the process for the next thing you want to quote

£50 a fish is nothing

job done!

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